Tom Kirk, CVAG | Innovative Solutions for Transportation and Energy in Coachella Valley

BCLB Band: [: 00:00:00

Howard Hoffman, Announcer: from the coveted corner booth in a.

y Florence, presented by the [: 00:01:00

Patrick Evans, Host: thank you very much, Howard. We are back here at the very coveted corner booth.

At Skip Paige’s Little Bar in Palm Desert, California. My name is Patrick Evans, and this is Big Conversations Little Bar with my co-host Randy Florence. Randy, my spiritual guru, Randy Florence. And, and, and. Caretaker to your lovely wife, Kay. Yes.

Randy Florence, Host: Yes. Well, she's been caretaking for me for 43 years, so I, I figured it was time for me to pay her back.

You gave her two weeks. It wasn't quite, that surgery was only eight days ago, so, oh, okay. So, wow. I'm done. Well, you're almost just washing your hands of that. Well, we found out today that I don't have to get up every three hours to refill the ice machine, so we were, I was very happy about that.

Patrick Evans, Host: Comes off shoulder replacement surgery and you're taking her rowing, uh, next week.

That's what I heard. Well,

Randy Florence, Host: I can't do it.

Patrick Evans, Host: I

Randy Florence, Host: can sit in the

Patrick Evans, Host: boat. [: 00:02:00

Randy Florence, Host: Uh, the weather was slightly better today as we record this. Thank you for that.

Patrick Evans, Host: We've been, we've running up. The end of June on a, on a really nice below average note, we want to give a shout out to the McCallum Theater, our presenting sponsor.

Uh, be sure to get your tickets for the upcoming season. It is gonna be bigger and better than ever and we're looking forward to having Yvan Bell, the new CEO. She's gonna be joining us on big conversations, a little bar soon, but I'm excited to welcome our guest. Today, who is the executive director of CVAG?

Mr. Tom Kirk. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome. Thank you you for having me. Welcome.

Randy Florence, Host: Sorry this is the end of your career.

Patrick Evans, Host: I know you thought it was going better than this, but here you are. Welcome. Thanks. It's certainly a bad sign. It's,

Randy Florence, Host: we just can't believe we keep talking people into doing it, knowing what's gonna happen.

That's when you should tell [: 00:03:00

Seasonal, but does your work kind of ebb and flow when, when summer comes around? Do you get to take a deep breath and relax a little bit? Uh, we do, but as a government

Tom Kirk, Guest: employee, I'm paid to tell everybody. It's busy all the time. Busy all the time. Yeah,

Randy Florence, Host: absolutely.

Tom Kirk, Guest: But it actually is a lot easier. In the summer, we don't have quite as many meetings.

Uh, it's a good time to. Get out of the desert, as we all know, and it's vacation time for a lot of our staff.

Randy Florence, Host: Does it give you time to get ahead of anything for the next year or do you just resting up for the summer?

Tom Kirk, Guest: You're, uh, giving me more credit than I deserve that we're generally catching up.

Catching up, play

You're, you're being polite [: 00:04:00

Tom Kirk, Guest: say we're going to be the all time. Some, some people may not know what c some people is, most people don't know what it is, and I oftentimes have a hard time explaining what it is, which may be a good sign or a bad one.

It's a regional government made up of the cities of the Coachella Valley, all of them, even the city of Blythe, way out on the. Border with Arizona, four Indian tribes out here and the county of Riverside. The agency's been around for 50 years and it's done a variety of things. What we do today is a lot of transportation work, some energy work, some homeless work, and we have two, three allied agencies that operate under our umbrella.

ther focused on IID electric [: 00:05:00

Randy Florence, Host: Yeah, we're gonna have to talk about IIDI just got my bill yesterday, so we'll discuss that one minute.

Yeah. You, you, you want to compare bills? No, no. Actually, do you compare maybe in a. Yeah. Hey, so let's go back to 50 years ago, um, as this valley was being put together and, you know, there were people like Dick and stuff who were coming up with unique ways to build, help build the valley. What put Seabag together?

Was it just an understanding that all of these cities needed to come together and in order to build services and such, what? Brings most

Tom Kirk, Guest: people or organizations together need a good enemy. A good enemy.

Randy Florence, Host: There we go. Yeah.

Tom Kirk, Guest: Or a bad enemy. Speaking of

Randy Florence, Host: I, ID,

Tom Kirk, Guest: yeah. Anyway. And you know, uh, you know what that that enemy was at the time was something called an oil refinery that would've been built.

ind up there. Yeah, exactly. [: 00:06:00

Okay. That, that became SEA a just a year or two later. Wow.

Patrick Evans, Host: And at that time, uh. Were, well, gosh, 50 years ago, some of these cities weren't even incorporated here. Half of them weren't. So, uh, but did, as they were incorporated, did everybody participate? Everybody had a seat at the table.

Tom Kirk, Guest: Yeah. Uh,

Randy Florence, Host: yes. They all participated.

Even Indian Wells and Rancho Mirage.

Tom Kirk, Guest: Yeah. Even Indiana. Welles Ner, Rancho Mirage. And, uh, we were gonna give him like

Patrick Evans, Host: 15 minutes before we started doing. Oh, okay. I'm going right into that. They are,

Tom Kirk, Guest: they are our best. Partners in many ways today, and what I can share with you is even if members are participating, they still at times may not like what we do on a program.

t least as long as I've been [: 00:07:00

Patrick Evans, Host: Well, Randy, I know that you view it as. Step to your vision of the future of the Coachella Valley, where we eliminate all of the cities, three cities, and we just come under one big umbrella that is No, no, no.

Randy Florence, Host: I, there needs to be at least three cities, three cities. We just need substantially fewer city managers.

Tom Kirk, Guest: That is so right. Tom, you guys, uh, you guys started by saying, this could be the end of my career. My career is over so I can, I can say these things. And of course I am fully supportive of local control and all of my friends.

That are the city managers out here, and, uh, we're not gonna get rid of cities anytime soon, anywhere in state California. I, I wrote

Randy Florence, Host: something in the sun and, and a week later I got a number of phone calls talking about my position on that. Yeah. And,

and what may be. Efficient, [: 00:08:00

Now, does it make sense to have this many city managers, this many regional executive directors or whatever it might be? Yeah, maybe not. But then again, we also believe in something called local control and having a close connection to your elected officials. And the bigger an organization gets, the less of that connection

Patrick Evans, Host: there is.

Yeah. I love that quote. What may be efficient may not always be best. I love that quote. That's a great quote. Uh, by the way, that's Randy's position. I, I think we should have a couple of more cities.

Randy Florence, Host: Evansville. Yeah. And, and which

Tom Kirk, Guest: ones do you wanna split up?

Randy Florence, Host: Indian and Wells.

Patrick Evans, Host: And Rancho and Mirage, they can be too. There you go.

Randy Florence, Host: Hey, this is working out. It is. But you

ould a mirage look like? Oh, [: 00:09:00

Randy Florence, Host: that was something else.

Patrick Evans, Host: Uh, that must be like herding cats a lot of the time, uh, when you guys decide on a policy initiative, because obviously, and I, um.

Let's just jump right to CV link. Here's, which I think in recent memory was the most controversial, if you can call it that program, uh, when, when there are policy differences between your member organizations, uh, it's gotta be, and it's a tough job for you to manage all of that and, and get everybody pointed in the same direction.

And not everybody off always does. Yeah.

Randy Florence, Host: All Tom's nodding yes. Yeah. He's think he's thinking about this and, and I, and I'm

perfection, you may not get [: 00:10:00

Does everybody have to agree with what you're doing? If they do, you're never gonna get something accomplished in public policy. So, uh, are most of our decisions unanimous at CVA? Actually, they are. Most of our programs or full support CV link certainly was an exception, and we could talk more about that.

I've got some news to pass along to you about something called CV Sync. And CV Sync is our regional traffic signal synchronization program. Getting the lights being a basketball. Yeah. And it's, you know, it's kind of a nerdy thing, you know, uh, and I get excited about it 'cause of course I'm nerdy. But the notion, you know, to kind of Randy's point about things would be more efficient, uh, with one or two or three cities.

eight cities in a very short [: 00:11:00

And we started this program a few years ago. We now have three major corridors in Coachella Valley, completely wired. We'll have another 21 finished by the end of the calendar year. And one city was out the city of Rancho Mirage and there were technical reasons, not just, or maybe not at all, a political ones.

And that city voted last week to come into the program. Wow. Oh, that's great. And that'll be approved by Seabag, hopefully on Monday. So about the time this airs, it'll be about the same time. That's really good news. That's great. That's great happens. And if it doesn't happen as I predict it, will, this could be my last week on the job.

Randy Florence, Host: Well, it doesn't air for three weeks, so you've got at least four weeks on the job

o. That's right. Edit, edit, [: 00:12:00

So it, it's really a broad reaching thing. It sounds simple. Uh, it, uh, and it, and it is. Simple in

Tom Kirk, Guest: some ways, but the, the concept is, but it is one of the most frustrating projects in so many ways. And, uh, by the way, no other place in the nation as far as I know, links their signals across city boundaries.

are doing it. And it's, uh, [: 00:13:00

It's not news when everybody's cooperating. It really isn't. No, that's not, we, we also don't report on all the planes that land safely. Yeah, exactly. And, and in one year recently they all did. Yes. Every commercial plane for 15 years, for no fatalities in one year. It was absolutely made worldwide. Amazing.

But that's not, yeah, that's not terribly interesting ITing news. Yeah. So, uh, what we do here, um, may not be news when we cooperate. It is news when we don't, and it's understandable. The cooperation is kind of boring. Well,

Patrick Evans, Host: yes. It doesn't make for great television. It certainly doesn't make for great.

gram is relatively new. Tell [: 00:14:00

Tom Kirk, Guest: Yeah, the, there are two energy related programs. One newer. In fact started two weeks ago, the other new, and that started a few years ago with the city of Palm Springs and in the palm in the city of Palm Springs. Uh, they made a commitment to bring in as much harbor, a hundred percent carbon free electricity as possible, full support of that city council.

They continued to be supportive of it and in Palm Springs. Residents have a choice. They could stick with Edison, they could work with Desert Community Energy. And if you work with Desert Community Energy, you're paying a premium. Yeah, you're paying a premium for a hundred percent carbon free. But the great thing about the program is we actually offer another dirtier.

about his IID bill, I'm just [: 00:15:00

Patrick Evans, Host: Yeah. I, I live in an SE neighborhood and, uh. We put solar on the house and it's still expensive.

Yeah. Like what? I pay my, my true up bill is pretty crazy.

Randy Florence, Host: It doesn't make sense for us to add solar. No, your rates are too low with IID Sorry, man. Oh, too bad. I wanna do to help all of you. No, your, your rates too expensive to help you. That

Tom Kirk, Guest: doesn't make sense. It doesn't make sense. Oh, we feel sorry for you.

This turn the issue,

reduce their compensation to [: 00:16:00

If we're really serious about solar and we should be, we should be increasing that compensation and making the compensation that you get from your utility company market compensation. And I'm so, you know,

Randy Florence, Host: and you should, money governor made Pardon? That for, for giving my electricity back to you. What? SCE, when I was in Idlewild, our solar would roll back into the grid.

Right. And weed. Get my solar bill was like $3 a month.

Patrick Evans, Host: Yes, that's exactly what I'm talking about. But it was actually, I think now, two years ago, uh, the state reduced that compensation. Right. 'cause they decided we were making too much. We were, yeah. We were making too much energy and getting, making too much money off of it.

Right. So. I'm irritated by that, so Well, can CFA tackle that? Well, no.

And the other side of it is [: 00:17:00

So there's a cross. Subsidy. As much as, as much as it's a great idea, you're paying generally welfare people who could afford to put solar up, right? A subsidy for that electricity that then is spread around the other ratepayers.

Patrick Evans, Host: Yeah, because it's complex. I, it is very complex, but uh, as long as I'm the one who could afford to, I'm okay with it.

Yeah.

Randy Florence, Host: So Patrick's the Rancho Mirage of the podcast. That's, we are in this self selfish corner of the bar that sit right over here.

Tom Kirk, Guest: Yeah.

Randy Florence, Host: Uh, can I go, you said something that fascinated me and that was the birth of Seabag, the, under the original name, and it was, it was put together for one purpose. Stop this oil refinery

Patrick Evans, Host: and obviously it worked 'cause there's no refinery.

There's no refinery [: 00:18:00

Randy Florence, Host: So, but now we've got all these brain cancer causing windmills up there, so, well, they're killing the birds. Oh, here we, you know, they're killing the birds. There we go. Something else for me to bitch about. Anyway, what, what, what happened next? Did they were so successful that they decided to expand?

Yeah,

Tom Kirk, Guest: and I, I'm no historian. I, I gather, uh, they were successful and. You know, they got by with, uh, you know, a staff person and a grant here and there, and for, uh, 10 years, they, maybe 20 years, uh, they were basically a organization that convened people. They had meetings and you think, oh, that's, that's nice.

er to those in Palm Springs. [: 00:19:00

In fact. Energy, uh, was on their plate and advocating to the PUC for certain desert related rates, that was a big deal. It wasn't really until 1989 that we became a lot more than that, and we started our transportation program where seabag really does set the financial stage and the priority setting stage.

Every major transportation project in the Coachella Valley. Yeah,

Randy Florence, Host: that, uh, go ahead. The, the project with the, uh, lights and getting those all synced up, um, I talked to somebody who was kind of, one of the people who built the valley, lived in Palm Springs, had to drive to India, and I would say, how long did it take?

sult of the, when you finish [: 00:20:00

Tom Kirk, Guest: because of all that complaining you're doing, we're gonna

Randy Florence, Host: keep right around my house.

We're gonna, yeah, we're gonna

Tom Kirk, Guest: keep an eye on your car and, uh, slow you down. We can put a transponder on your car that turns the lights red. Just use the one K's got on there. There you go. She's got a tag on me. Uh, you know that, that, uh, we, we actually measure, we do before and now. And uh, we did it on Ramon Road.

We've done it on Highway one 11 in Washington. Those are the three corridors that are currently operational and we saved about 15 to 20%. And that's a big deal. That's a huge deal. It's a big deal.

Patrick Evans, Host: You guys did a fabulous job on Ramon. Awesome. I live in Cathedral City. I often go to Palm Springs and it is wonderful and I have noticed a major difference, you know.

And there's nothing signals [: 00:21:00

And now that we have almost 21 other corridors, it'll make all the other major arterials work better too. In addition to all of that, for anybody that's uh, attended the tennis tournament, it's a little easier for us when we live here. We actually manage the traffic going in and outta the tennis tournament this year.

And last year we didn't have Fred Waring completely hooked up, but we will next year. And I'm told that there is not a single complaint. I'm gonna tell you about traffic. Tell I I live right over there getting into the tennis tournament this year. Well, that's remarkable. It was amazing. It is remarkable.

n site. Work with a team. We [: 00:22:00

There you go. You're going

Patrick Evans, Host: back. Probably not. Uh, but I had a great time that the 20 minutes that I was there, you

Randy Florence, Host: were so high when you got off the bus.

Patrick Evans, Host: I was on the bus longer than I was actually at the event. That's because it

Tom Kirk, Guest: was a double decker bus.

Patrick Evans, Host: No, that's true. He was sitting on top. That's right.

It all

Randy Florence, Host: rises.

Patrick Evans, Host: It all rises. Uh, that's, that's one great initiative. Uh, obviously the power. You said we have two power initiatives.

Tom Kirk, Guest: Yeah. The, the other is you might have heard about. Power issues in the IID service territory. Uh, and they're not issues of how much you pay, they're issues of can we accommodate new growth in the Imperial Irrigation District.

That's been a

Patrick Evans, Host: big issue because it's, it's, uh, stalling new construction

because the developer agreed [: 00:23:00

Tom Kirk, Guest: area. And these substations are 25 or $30 million.

It's not an easy thing for even the biggest of developers to pony up right away. Uh, what we're doing there is working with at least three cities now, three, two cities in the county. So India, Quinta, and the county have formed a. Coachella Valley Power Authority that is working with IID on solutions to that.

Uh, many of the solutions are already underway. I think India has taken some great steps to order some of the equipment necessary for new substations. And together, uh, we're gonna solve that problem. And if we're sitting here another year or two. If I still have my job, then um, I hope to report on some of the solutions that are implemented or will soon be implemented.

Randy Florence, Host: What are you most excited about, what you've accomplished in your time at C Bank?

[: 00:24:00

And I've, you know, I've complained about staffing every once in a while. Uh, that's not the case today. It's been great to recruit people. It's great to have them on board. We've got just a really topnotch team, uh, clink. I'm, I'm certainly proud of that. Uh, we've had our challenges. It's been a long time coming, but it is one of the largest such systems in the nation.

ide money pay for almost all [: 00:25:00

Yeah.

Randy Florence, Host: And, and the manner in which you did that, the different types of grants and stuff with the different umbrellas that you secured those grants on was pretty, um, in. The thought process behind that was pretty extreme. You guys went out and found things that were related to health related out in the East Valley and such like that.

Yeah. Randy, you do

Tom Kirk, Guest: remember Good. Um, and you're right. And to give a shout out to Desert Healthcare District, uh, they put in $10 million. Give a shout out to South Coast Air Quality Management District. They put $17 million, give a shout out to the state of California. They put close to $20 million into this.

uh, first proposed CCB link, [: 00:26:00

They were called golf carts at the time. Golf cart. Yes. Yeah, and our first opponents to CB Link weren't in the city of Rancho Mirage. They were bicyclists who did not want to have electric vehicles on. Cv, like these damn golf carts. And now they're

Randy Florence, Host: all

Tom Kirk, Guest: driving e-bikes. Now they're all driving. They maybe not those bicyclists.

Right. But every bike I see these days is an e-bike or at least a good 50% of them. Yeah. And today there's a recognition that, uh, project like this can accommodate all sorts of folks. Those that are in the Lycra, that can go 50 miles and that's not me. Right. And also those that are recreational bikers or kids or they're disabled, that might need a little help along the way.

The,

g a presentation early on CB [: 00:27:00

And, uh, just about the time you were starting the presentation, somebody opened the door to bring in breakfast. It was basically about 50 pounds of, uh, big Macs and egg McMuffins and stuff like that. And the look on your face was, you were kinda horrified at them. You even made a comment about it. Um, but I mean, that's really the way peop people weren't tying all of that stuff together at that time.

Do you see it different today that the community has more of an understanding of what it represents than more than just a long bike path?

Tom Kirk, Guest: I, you're probably giving me too much credit for being aware. I've never been. Quick. Uh, I've never been, uh, it's never been suggested that I have self-awareness or any awareness at all.

and that, so that's usually [: 00:28:00

Randy Florence, Host: straight ahead and I

Tom Kirk, Guest: haven't been paying much attention to what people think about it lately.

Yeah.

Patrick Evans, Host: Alright, we're gonna continue this, uh, we're gonna take a quick pause to say thank you to our presenting sponsor, the McCallum Theater, getting geared up for another incredible season. The calendar is out. You can go to mc McCallum theater.org to get all the latest information to the buyer. Season tickets.

Uh, the good stuff, you know, it always goes quick, uh, but they have some really incredible shows and we are looking forward to continuing our partnership with the McCallum Theater

McCallum Ad VO Announcer: at the McCallum Theater. We believe in placing arts at the heart of learning. Since 97, our education department has inspired nearly 1 million students and community members through dynamic performances and immersive arts education programs from the Palm Desert Choreography Festival to our open call talent project.

tforms for emerging artists. [: 00:29:00

Patrick Evans, Host: Okay, and we're back with, with Tom Kirk, the head of CVAG. And let's, uh, you know, it was, it was controversial and there was, there was a big blow up over in, in, you know, two cities in particular, Rancho Mirage and Indian Wells did not wanna play ball with the CV link.

Uh, I. You know, I was working in the news department, but remember I do weather and I on the desert, so I tell good news. I didn't get too in the weeds on that, but their objections were about routing, and I understand some of the objections were about long-term maintenance on the routes through particular cities where they thought they would be responsible and.

We didn't know what that number looked like. Okay. Am I right on that? Am I close? Yeah,

ys, good news, I bitch about [: 00:30:00

Randy Florence, Host: not sure, but now you're here.

What are the two things I complain about? The heat and the speed people drive on these roads. But I'll talk about that in a moment. And he's responsible

Patrick Evans, Host: for increasing the speed. I know. Yell at him. No, Randy's always mad that people come up, uh, Monterey, you know, and the speed limit is 55 on Monterey. Yeah.

And he, they were driving 55. I'm like, they, when I got my

Randy Florence, Host: license, I had to drive 55 on every freeway in this country. And now I can do that on Jefferson. Thank goodness we fixed that.

Tom Kirk, Guest: And uh, Patrick, you're right, uh, uh, folks raised all sorts of issues. Uh, I'm not sure those were really the issues. Uh, the issues didn't come from the poorest cities.

They, the poor cities were, they were country club issues. They were, I think there were a lot of country club issues and there are legitimate ones. Uh, if you look into Rancho Mirage, we have country clubs in the wash. Were we gonna go through those country clubs? We weren't, we're gonna go around them, but maybe that was even a little too close.

we had a complaint, uh, from [: 00:31:00

There's sometimes, you know, crime next door to this place, there's a, that could happen anywhere. Somebody's gonna get hurt out there. Things, bad things will happen, but I'm confident that a lot more good things will happen. Uh, people will get out, uh, be healthy and it sure is a lot safer to fall on your bike on CB Lake than to be run over on Monterey.

Right, Randy? Absolutely. 55 mile an hour speeders on those people are ccra. Nobody needs, needs to

rview of CCB Link, what it's [: 00:32:00

Patrick Evans, Host: and how you solve those routing issues from the, the, the cities that didn't want to play ball.

Yeah. You moved to La

Randy Florence, Host: Quinta. Well, that's what I did. You moved to Cathedral City.

Tom Kirk, Guest: Sorry. The, uh, CV link is 42 miles long, so again, it's one of the largest networks of its kind in the nation. It's one of the nicest too, if you get out there, you'll see, uh, under crossings, you'll see some bridges,

Patrick Evans, Host: the under crossings around Riverside and Mesquite in Palm Springs.

Really nice and freshly completed. I was just biking on that a couple of weeks ago. Yeah.

n the future and then all of [: 00:33:00

Two routes in Palm Springs, one along the Whitewater River or another through the Tow Creek channel into the downtown area. And it's a funny thing. Again, Patrick, I can't blame you or anybody else. The first question I get to anybody that knows anything about CV Link is, well, there are two gaps, what you're gonna do about it.

I don't know about you, but I've never. Ridden a bike 50 miles of my life and most of us ride a bike two or three miles. And if we could accommodate the 95% of the folks that ride two or three or four miles, awesome. For those that want to go from point A. Uh, either in Coachella or reverse it in Palm Springs and go to the other end of CV Link.

ue. I've made investments in [: 00:34:00

That's a

Randy Florence, Host: shift.

Tom Kirk, Guest: Yeah. Yeah. And uh, uh, Indian Wells just got a number of, uh, major grants to do some work on Cook Street and Highway one 11. So it's a big deal. Yeah, that's great. Can we learn a little

Randy Florence, Host: bit more about Tom? We should. Why am I asking

Tom Kirk, Guest: you? Ask Tom. Where are you from? Tom, Los Angeles and Orange County.

Born in Los Angeles. Born in Inglewood. Okay. And, uh, lived in LA in Orange County for, uh, most of my childhood and spent a little time in the Bay Area.

Randy Florence, Host: And what in your childhood is now putting you in a position of building 42 miles of CB Link? Where'd that come from?

Tom Kirk, Guest: Yeah, I don't, I don't know Randy. I've never been asked that.

dad was a gardener. Really? [: 00:35:00

It is rewarding to me something, and, uh, this might sound like a gender thing, only because it is, uh, we need to be put to work. Men need to be put to work to feel, you know, fulfilled and even if it's a temporary, getting something done. And for me, a CV link or signal synchronization or a homeless program or buying and selling electricity is getting shit done.

And so it's rewarding. So maybe that's. The link and comes from a work ethic from my family.

Randy Florence, Host: When you, when you took your master or got your master's, it was kind of prescient and that it was on things that were gonna end up being serving you at, at Seabag. Was that intentional?

, but I like to use the word [: 00:36:00

Uh, I did work in the private sector for 10 years out of college. What kind of work? Uh, working for land use, developing land developers and cities and counties, but as a private consultant and, uh, decided to go back to school 'cause I thought I needed a degree. Not sure I did. But I got a degree up it up place in, uh, Northern California.

And coming outta that, I thought, you know, what am I gonna do next? And there was a job opportunity here, and I'll call this CVA one. I worked at CVA one year and then went off and did other things and the Coachella Valley, and then I came back. And had you been coming to the Valley? Did you, were you familiar with it?

degrees. Uh, but [: 00:37:00

And, uh, I looked into it, thought, you know. I know a little bit about CA because it had already been doing really good stuff and this region had been working well together. Like, well, maybe I'll take that job. So I, if I was offered it, I went to the interview and this story is about intention and serendipity on the intention front.

I went into that job and one of the couple were elected officials. In fact, John Pena was on my interview panel 25 years ago or whatever it was, 28 years ago. And this was before you

Randy Florence, Host: became a to city council person? Long,

standard interview question, [: 00:38:00

We don't ask that anymore because we don't know what we're gonna be doing in five months. Right? Right. Or whether AI careers or AI is taking us over whatever it is. And, uh, I had the audacity to say, and I shouldn't have, well, I quirky. I want your job. I'm not gonna take, I didn't say it in a way that I'm gonna take her job, but eventually I wanna run this organization.

When they asked me what do I wanna do in 10 years? I want to run Seabag. The serendipitous part, and I'll finish that part of the story in a second, was I left that interview and it was August, and for those of us that came here from somewhere else, we swear when we first got here that summer was the hottest summer ever.

at interview in late August. [: 00:39:00

I swore that I saw somebody playing volleyball, sand volleyball, afternoon, 3:00 PM 120 something. So I walk out there in my suit and sure enough, there were three guys trying to play sand volleyball, but their fourth didn't show up. Walked out on the side of the road. I walk back out to the car, take my bathing suit out, put it on 'cause I always had it walk out and play sand volleyball with these guys.

ack to the intentional part, [: 00:40:00

And for it's a hundred percent fixed for land developers went to Lakita City Council. 10 years had passed the job. Opens up at. Cba, I'm highly, I was highly and am highly qualified to run the organization, but my colleagues, elected officials didn't know that. I get to the final interview with Roy Wilson, elected and other elected officials, and they say, why do you.

I wanna do this. I said 10 years ago I came here to do this. Wow. So being here is part intention and part serendipity. Had those guys playing, did not been playing sand volleyball, I may not have accepted the position. Are you a believer in that kind of stuff with your whole life? Or was it just that one time?

t a believer in it. I'm not, [: 00:41:00

Randy Florence, Host: So you fixed the salt and sea, which makes me wonder how bad it really was, because it still seems kind of bad.

Uh,

Tom Kirk, Guest: something's wrong with my equipment here. No, uh, can, can You guys can't hear me? I, I, sorry. I can't hear you anymore. So where are we Really? There's a, a whole bunch of money that's being spent that, that's the

Patrick Evans, Host: biggest hard luck case. Yeah. Going. Yeah. Maybe so. Maybe so. I mean, it it, it seems like it's a solvable problem, but will we ever raise enough money to solve the problem?

Yeah, no. A

improvements have been made [: 00:42:00

Randy Florence, Host: be having some positive effect. Yeah,

Tom Kirk, Guest: and, and I, I'm no expert on the subject, not.

Connected to the project should get, you know, Patrick O'Dowd here, uh, at some point. Mm-hmm. He's running the Salton Sea Authority now, and the state is very actively involved in addressing some of the air quality issues as well as providing habitat. When I was running it. Um, this was the time when, you know, Sonny Bono was alive and just died.

The time when I flew around with New Gingrich and Ken Calvert and Congressional delegation and Mary Bono, of course, and looked at. The Salton Sea and there's a lot of interest in activity. Uh, we did solve some problems, um, with the US Fish and Wildlife Service and a lot of researchers. We had major bird disease problems out there that we got ahead of, uh, and did address.

So that was a big accomplishment at the time. Yes.

related unassociated citizen [: 00:43:00

Tom Kirk, Guest: Uh, the air quality issue is something I'm, I'm very engaged in right now, and the air quality problem we've had in the last two years is not.

Salton Sea related? No, it's, uh, hurricane Hillary related. Hurricane Hell yes. And Patrick

Randy Florence, Host: did

Tom Kirk, Guest: that?

Patrick Evans, Host: Yeah.

Tom Kirk, Guest: Well,

Patrick Evans, Host: uh, Patrick, no, but I didn't predict when it would get here and how hard it would hit, so,

Randy Florence, Host: and you sat right in the middle of it on the freeway when it did. I did.

Tom Kirk, Guest: And, uh, you, you both like you're both here when it hit.

ited, but the Windies. Point [: 00:44:00

And you might remember the days right after the hurricane tropical storm, we had the worst air quality we've ever seen. Yeah. And that never happens in September, October. Here, usually it's a pretty good month for air quality. We don't have a lot of wind, but that fine, that really fine dust.

Patrick Evans, Host: That was one of the big issues because what got picked up by all of that rain was the lightest.

Uh, of the particulate matter, and that's what settled at the surface. Uh, just by the way Mother Nature works, and as all of that water evaporated, the lightest silt was left at the top of the, at the very surface, and it's. And we're still suffering from that now, in

Tom Kirk, Guest: my opinion, we are, um, I, we have a little bit of a dispute with our South Coast Air Quality and Management District, and it's been an ongoing thing.

onditions last two years are [: 00:45:00

He's on the South Coast Air Quality Management District Board, and I've just gotta believe that, you know, having, uh, a thousand PhDs, but they're sitting in Diamond Bar doesn't replace our own eyes and lungs. We are having an air quality problem.

Patrick Evans, Host: We, we are a hundred percent are having an air quality problem.

I see that. Uh, you know, when we're talking about, it used to be the threshold for legitimate blowing sand and dust that would potentially shut down one of the wash roads. That wind threshold was much higher. It's much lower today because again, the weight of the matter that is. Sitting at the surface is much lighter.

ind to shut down Gene Autry. [: 00:46:00

Randy Florence, Host: driving slower. They're not driving at all when

Patrick Evans, Host: it gets closed. Randy, uh, and I think what, you know, one of the, one of the big issues with the Air Quality Management District is that, that the, the level of data I think they're getting is not particularly great because they don't have.

They're not getting good, solid, comprehensive data because they don't have a really solid comprehensive sensor system out here. Uh,

Tom Kirk, Guest: I don't agree with that. Uh, the data they have, in my opinion, I look at that data and I'm not a complete idiot. I see a major difference. I in. On SAT Friday and Saturday, you could go on to AQ now, air Quality now.

oast Area Quality Management [: 00:47:00

We never had the worst air quality in the nation.

Patrick Evans, Host: In your opinion. You're exactly correct. Um, I, but I think they could have a, a stronger sensor network and a better data network that they may be. I interpolating the data not very well.

Tom Kirk, Guest: Yeah. You know, Patrick, uh, to give them a little bit of credit. Now you could probably sense I've got, uh, major differences of opinion with South Coast.

They did put another monitor out. It's in Cathedral City, and guess what? That monitor demonstrates it. We have a major problem here. It's off the charts. Off chart. Off the chart. Is it political? Are we stepchildren? I don't get it. I've never seen a regulatory agency that shies away from being a regulatory agent to be able to do it.

Yeah. Well,

Patrick Evans, Host: but have you been to Diamond Bar?

Randy Florence, Host: I have. I mean,

Patrick Evans, Host: is it great? It's not great. Uh, anyway, apologies to our listeners and Diamond Bar, uh, both

Randy Florence, Host: of

atrick Evans, Host: them. So [: 00:48:00

Tom Kirk, Guest: Oh yes. It's occupied my.

Time and uh, we did take steps right after the storm contacted South Coast. They said, don't worry. Yeah, the rain will come and that we won't have an issue. They do not believe that that mud that finds. Sediment that you and I know is the cause of the problem. They do not believe that is the cause of any problem because there's not a problem.

What we did is contacted Caltrans, worked with Cathedral City in Palm Springs, and applied that grain soil stabilizer everywhere we possibly could where we can. Is in some of the conservation areas in the bottom of the wash, right? Uh, could we, which unfortunately is one primary source of the problem. It it, well, it's a huge source of the problem.

ncies that we had a problem? [: 00:49:00

Randy Florence, Host: And do we need them to realize it for there to be improvement? To get authorization

Tom Kirk, Guest: to do some of the things they wanna do?

Yes. I, I believe we do. Uh, perhaps you can go over their head. I know some of suggested going to EPA go to EPA right now and say. Go regulate California. I don't think that's gonna happen. That's not gonna happen. But speaking of which, are you having

Randy Florence, Host: any, uh, funding issues?

Tom Kirk, Guest: No, uh, we're not. Um, and again, as a government employee, I'm supposed to say, yes, we need more money.

[: 00:50:00

And there are lots of other projects. Those are some of the biggest. Our challenge is we just don't have the money and there's some state and fed, there's some federal infrastructure dollars that periodically come in. They always get washed through the state of California, and the state of California does not like projects that allow people to drive more.

And as you've heard, I certainly believe in global warming. Right? I also know in this valley, not everybody's gonna use CV link or the. To get from point A to point B. It's just not practical and it's certainly not during the summer. So we need that funding to come into projects like Monroe and Jackson and Avenue 50 and state policy is really against it.

sly. Uh, but all in all, our [: 00:51:00

Uh, barer Road? Uh, for those that may not know where it is, it's just on the north side of the freeway and it's. Parallel to the freeway from essentially Palm Drive and Desert Hot Springs to, we'll call it, uh, towards, uh, Dillon Road. You can kind of work your way around in Indio. Uh, we are currently in design on Varner Road to both put in the signals that'll help.

ou could look over to Varner [: 00:52:00

So, uh, we could turn Varner into an alternate emergency access route and we're working with the county and Caltrans to a lesser extent to do that.

Randy Florence, Host: Yeah. That would be great news. I'd like to be able to get in and out of Acrisure a little bit easier. That's, oh, that's your issue. Priorities, right?

Priorities. That's that. And I, ID rates. If you could just handle those things from the selfish corner of the bar.

Patrick Evans, Host: That's it. Is. It is. Uh. In the interest of, I know that you have to get outta here, we're gonna wrap up. But this is one of those where I feel like we just barely scratched the tip of the iceberg.

Oh, there's so many

Randy Florence, Host: more things I have to complain about.

Patrick Evans, Host: That's Tom. Thank you very much. I appreciate, appreciate you coming on and being candid with us. And it, it's been very enlightening for me and I'm, and, uh, I know that you're gonna continue working on the air quality issue. Uh, John White did a, a fairly lengthy report about that, and it's something that we need to follow up on as well.

a little media shedding the [: 00:53:00

Randy Florence, Host: gentlemen, this has been fun. You coming? Thank you so much coming, Randy,

Tom Kirk, Guest: great seeing you again. Thank you, Patrick. Always pleasure. Thank you for the work you're doing

Patrick Evans, Host: on behalf of the Valley. Thank you. We appreciate it.

And once again, our thanks to the McCallum Theater, our presenting sponsor. Randy, you're fabulous. Your research is unparalleled.

Randy Florence, Host: I, I did. Virtually none. He'd led me into almost every good topic I wanted to bring up. There

Patrick Evans, Host: you go. That was great. That's why we, we should have him back as a guest

Randy Florence, Host: or give him my check.

Patrick Evans, Host: It's what? Those checks. He, it's so small, he wouldn't even buy the chemistry. Our thanks to Skip Page and his team here at Little Bar for taking good care of us, as they always do. And John McMullen our producer for doing all the hard work behind the scenes. And thank you all for listening. Remember to subscribe so you never miss an episode of Big Conversations Little Bar available at all of your favorite platforms.

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