Del Shores, Producer/Director/Writer | Stage & Screen Shenanigans with a Gay Southern Baptist Talent

TRANSCRIPT:

Patrick Evans: [: 00:00:00

Randy Florence: biscuits and gravy? I had biscuits and gravy for lunch, but that was spiritual.

Was it? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I kind of, this they are, if they're done right. Oh, th This one was Wilma and Frida's. Oh, yes. You can't do better than that in this time. I

Patrick Evans: love Wilma. I can't stand Frida. No, I'm kidding.

Randy Florence: That's, except I walked in there singing Yaba Dabadoo and they, it's not, not, I thought it was Fred and Wilma's, not Fred and Wilma's.

Wilma. Hey, I wanna bring something up. Uh oh. Because this is huge. Yes. What happened? Um, free Spot. Is that the name of the website?

Patrick Evans: Oh, blog Spot. I think. Blog Spot. Okay. Well, we're here, we've done more research on that. We are

t in Coachella Valley and we [: 00:01:00

Yeah. But

Patrick Evans: you know, and I, I feel badly for the Firebirds, uh, but you know, they've made it to the playoffs three times, but

Randy Florence: we've lasted longer than this season than they have.

Patrick Evans: That is true. That's true. I thought third time was gonna be true. Yeah. We, I, I really appreciate, uh, the blogs, but they, they ranked.

Coachella Valley Podcast. And it, thankfully, it wasn't based on listenership, it was based on a, a number of, uh, algorithms, I assume

Randy Florence: cocktails consume.

Patrick Evans: Yeah, cocktails consume, cocktails consume. We were number one a long time ago. Uh, but yeah, they named us the, the podcast number one

Randy Florence: podcast in the valley.

And

use you're celebrating a big [: 00:02:00

Del Shores: 25 years. I can't believe it. I was like, the other day, I, someone asked me, uh, how old were you when it, and I'd already said it's 25 years old, so they're just trying to, I said, look, I am, I'm 67 now and proud of it because I feel very young in Palm Springs in the, in the valley here.

Randy Florence: We were born in the same year.

Del Shores: Is that right? You and I?

Randy Florence: Except I wasn't born in Winters, Texas.

Del Shores: Yeah, there were very few of us. Who were

Randy Florence: you? Yeah,

Patrick Evans: I was born in 57. And you're, uh, you came from a, a Southern Baptist background? I

Del Shores: did.

Patrick Evans: Um. I, I I did too as well. Did you really? Yeah. Well, it was weird. My mother was a Methodist and my father was Catholic, so they settled on Baptist.

That is very odd.

s be a Mormon. Yeah. I mean, [: 00:03:00

Randy Florence: we haven't even talked about their Scientology time yet, so.

Patrick Evans: Well,

Randy Florence: but we

Patrick Evans: only did that because Tom Cruise is so damned handsome.

Del Shores: Oh.

Patrick Evans: When he comes to the house, you say, sure. I wanna be a Scientologist. I would, yeah. Um, yeah. No, and that's why I actually really, a lot of your work resonates with me because I, I, I have since retreated back to the Catholic church, um, because I felt like as an Italian American, the Southern Baptist really didn't want me.

Um,

Del Shores: congratulations on your new Pope. Yes. Oh, thank you. We like Pope Lee, do you have anything to do with that? I think for Pope, he's kind of sexy. Um, that's what I said. I was what they were saying. It's down to three. I said, which is because I always go by not their qualifications. Who is the hottest?

That's what I want. Well, he's

Patrick Evans: relatively a young man for the position

Del Shores: my age. Yes. There you go. And you

Patrick Evans: know, my wife said to, she said, you know, he has a really kind face. So I guess that is, uh, a sexy quality. And what

. [: 00:04:00

Patrick Evans: I'm gonna go out on a limb and say, I think even the straight people can get into that.

I don't, yeah, I don't think that's limited. That's, uh, I have

Randy Florence: no idea what you guys are talking about.

Del Shores: I, I had someone the other day, I was talking about 69, and she said, this woman, she goes, I don't like 69. It's just too much multitask.

Randy Florence: So we went from the pope. Yeah, we went right to right. You know the, I'll

Del Shores: bring you into the gutter very fast. One of us will be bursting

Randy Florence: into flames in the next five minutes.

Patrick Evans: Um, you know the fastest speed at which you can have sex. Is 68 because at 69 you have to turn around. Oh, just, oh, wow. That's, we have real low.

Del Shores: So yes, Southern Baptist. Baptist. Baptist. My dad, Southern, Southern Baptist, grew Southern Baptist, preacher Baptist,

Patrick Evans: you know, I was in the choir as a Southern Baptist kid and, and you know, there's a culture

Del Shores: Yeah.

Patrick Evans: Uh, that, that permeates that. And it really is interesting to me to, to look back at some of your work because I see how that influenced you.

But it must have been very, [: 00:05:00

Del Shores: Yeah. I mean, you know, I'm from Texas and my dad was, uh, I was. Like, my dad was the Southern Baptist preacher. My mom was the high school drama teacher, so I had theatrics on both sides of the family. But, um, but honestly, uh, in, in, in my writing of Southern Baptist sissies, and I'm sure you felt this too, there was, there was actually a wonderful community there.

Oh, absolutely. And the church. And, and I remember when I wrote Mark, which was based on me, and he looked around and he said, I'm leaving the church, but I'm gonna miss it. The sweet old ladies, the southern, the, the, you know, the covered dish fellowships, the hymns. I mean, I still get stoned and go on YouTube and listen to Sandy Patty and, uh, you know, it's just part of the gaithers, you know?

h. Uh, those, those kinds of [: 00:06:00

Del Shores: brother was talking to me recently. We're, we're, we've gotten very, very close over our, um, disdain for, uh, Donald Trump. And, uh, it brings a lot

Patrick Evans: of people together.

Well, united that way. I,

Del Shores: I adore my brother. He was my big brother. And, but he was a, he became a Southern Baptist, uh, preacher and he was a Republican for years. And this really. He brought us together in a, in a, in an odd way. I always go, if there anything positive came out of this administration. It was my relationship with my brother.

But we were talking and he said, sometimes when I read your work or where, where I hear you talking about our childhood, it seems like that you were, uh, you, you had an unhappy childhood. And I don't think we did. And I said the difference, my brother's name is Dexon. I said the difference was I heard a different sermon than you did.

John McMullen: Oh.

hear what you were hearing. [: 00:07:00

Randy Florence: Wow.

Del Shores: You know? So it was a d Yeah, it was a different experience. And we did have a wonderful, happy childhood.

My parents were amazing, but uh, in that, you know, as. Mark said in Southern Baptist sissies, this is where we learned to hate ourselves.

Randy Florence: And and when did your parents start to know that this was becoming an issue for you?

Del Shores: Well, they didn't for many years. 'cause you know, I married a woman. I had two, I have two, uh, daughters.

I'm gonna be a grandpa, by the way, in my oh, three weeks. Congratulations. Congratulations. My youngest daughter, Caroline, is pregnant with a baby. Nothing better than grandkids, baby boy. Yeah. And we're all excited about that. And I don't regret that, the damage that I had, because it gave me, uh, these two amazing kids.

And it also, you know, damage gave me a career. Uh, but

Patrick Evans: what would you have to write about? That's right.

. But in that, uh, yeah, it, [: 00:08:00

I bet my mom immediately. 'cause my mom was Latrell. My mom was going, oh honey, I've been waiting for this your entire life. You know? She wasn't surprised. No. Wasn't surprised at all, you know, so

Randy Florence: and so, how did this. I, I mean it seems pretty obvious based on your early writings, but how did this kind of form what you did when you started writing?

Del Shores: Well, you know, early, early career, uh, when, when I was living a straight life and I wrote Daddy's Dying, who's Got The Will, which became a movie I. Uh, I think what it, how it informed it was that, uh, there was a celebration of sorts of the church. I mean, there's always hymns in every piece of work that I've written, there's, there's always, uh, that the foundation of that, that, that religion is there, how it.

character is different. But, [: 00:09:00

Patrick Evans: your

Del Shores: past. That's right. I mean, you know, I, with daddy's diet, when I wrote Daddy's Die, I was 20, I was 28 years old when it opened.

The play opened and, uh, it opened in a 64 seat house in Hollywood. I never thought my family, except for my mom, nobody goes to theater. I never thought that they would know about it. So I just stole my mother's family when and when my grandpa was dying. And, uh, my paw. And, uh, oh boy. When that movie came out, my Aunt Rita didn't speak to me for seven years.

They reckon. So she really ruffled feathers. Oh, it was, it was obvious who was who? It it, yes. And they were like all excited, I've got this movie coming out, and I didn't tell 'em what it was about. I was like, I was like, how do you tell 'em? Oh, the good news is it's about you guys. And the bad news is it's about you guys.

It's about you guys. But, uh, it all

Patrick Evans: worked

Del Shores: out,

Patrick Evans: you [: 00:10:00

Del Shores: that, you must have been terribly conflicted. Very, yeah. You know, there's a lot of, uh, pray the Gay away. Right, right. That was taught you, you, I mean, you probably heard that in those pews yourself, not that, that you had to deal with that.

You, uh, but it, it, it was, it was a part of me, my struggle. And so I, one day, you know, I'm in therapy and, uh, I had met somebody online that was, it wasn't a full on affair, but it was, it was, there was an emotional affair going on, and I had to confess to my therapist, uh, I, I think I'm bi. That's how you start.

ter, after I, you know, the, [: 00:11:00

Randy Florence: Just the one. And I said, bye. You put, you know,

Del Shores: so it was, it was you down the brass tacks. It was not easy. It was really not easy.

Randy Florence: You mentioned in church, you told your brother that you were always kind of hiding something. Um, did you know what you were hiding, of course. Or did you just feel different?

Del Shores: No, I knew what I was hiding.

Yeah. I knew, you know, I knew I was attracted to. That summer missionary Mike, I knew I was attracted to, you know, this, this guy, Pope guy, you know that.

grew up kind of immersed in [: 00:12:00

Yeah. I, I think, you know, uh, uh, famously, uh, a former president of the Southern Baptist Association said, God doesn't hear the prayers of Jews. I mean, it, it, yeah. I mean, I think it's, it's just an incredibly, like, it's kind of our way or the highway, right? And so no matter how you might be different. Uh, any difference?

Any difference? No. You know, you just, it's, there's

Del Shores: no, there's no, you know, it's, it's, oh, there's this whole philosophy of Christianity. Oh, we love, we accept. But no, that is not the case. And I remember when we first did Southern Baptist sissies, after it ran in la we moved it to Dallas, Texas, and it's in the heat of summer.

a Speedo on the Pope on the [: 00:13:00

And, uh, I was like, well, it's my cross too. And this is what it means to me. It means the persecution of, of, of, of. The L-G-B-T-Q community. And so they wouldn't run our ads in the Dallas Morning News. But what happened was, uh, they then ran an article in the religion section about the conflict of this poster.

And, uh, then Channel five there interviewed me in on the set and it was this wonderfully warm set of a church. And I'm sitting there in a pew, kind

Randy Florence: of like this, right? Yeah, yeah. The bar we're in, like, this is a house of worship for some of worship. Well, that's

Del Shores: sort of my sanctuary these days. So, um, I remember this wonderful reporter asked me, she said, what's the difference between your message and this play and the message that, uh, you heard in these pews growing up?

difference is exactly what's [: 00:14:00

Bring it on. Bring, get, I think

Patrick Evans: absolutely a religious protest. Like when they get mad about movies, everybody goes to see movies. Oh, movie. Yeah. They're like, absolutely, my Baptist don't like this. We should go see it. Yeah.

Del Shores: That's why Married with Children became a hit because they, they had an uproar over it.

t, don't protest in the heat.[: 00:15:00

Randy Florence: You, you just mentioned a reverential name in this valley. Oh, Leslie. Leslie Jordan. What can, what can you tell us about that relationship?

Del Shores: It was. Um, hmm. You know, it's weird because for a little while I was doing interviews, I said, I can't talk about this. Mm-hmm. Uh, because it's too hard. And, uh, he was, he was as close to me as any family member has ever been.

I mean, he was like my, my brother of sorts, he was the brother I didn't have, uh, growing up who understood everything. I always say Leslie was my mentor in, in learning to be gay. I, when I, I, Dr. Sandra, when I was having a hard time coming out, she said, choose somebody that will celebrate it. And so I called Leslie and I told him the real reason the marriage fell apart.

on a journey together, a, a [: 00:16:00

You know, it was like you write something and then this voice of Leslie Jordan and this. Little body portrays those characters and they are elevated to another. He's just bigger

Randy Florence: than life, wasn't

Del Shores: he? They were. He was, he was an amazing, and it was, it's single, the single hardest death I've ever had in my life was Leslie's.

Yeah. Yeah. I just wasn't expecting it.

Randy Florence: Anything about him that most of us wouldn't know?

memorial in Chattanooga. And [: 00:17:00

Uh, when it went equity. We went to Kansas City together. He had auditioned for me. And I was like, where have you been? And, uh, so we just became buddies immediately. And I remember, uh, we were there during Christmas. Uh, we, we had rehearsal like on. The day before Christmas Eve and the day after Christmas. So we couldn't go anywhere and we would go to this little diner and this waitress was waiting on us, and we had gotten to know her and she was going through a really bad divorce with this awful husband this year.

you still have your per diem?[: 00:18:00

And now let me explain something. Back then we were making $350 a week for the play and maybe a hundred dollars extra in per diem, like $20 a day or something. Yeah. And I said, yeah. And he said, okay, let's give her 50 each. So those, so those kids can have some Christmas. And so he wrote her a little note and we left her a hundred dollars and then he, when we got out to the car, he said, let's watch her.

And so we watched her just collapse. Into the, you know, into the bow. The bow. And that's a great story. So that's who he was. It was, you know, he was, he, he, he gave and, and he gave back and he saw people and he loved, he loved to talk to anybody.

Randy Florence: And was he like that as an actor? Very giving as another actor on stage?

Del Shores: Well, [: 00:19:00

Getting the laugh. That's awesome. That is phenomenal.

Patrick Evans: Nothing when, uh, Sordid Lives debuted. Um, you know, again, you're looking back at 25 years of this, it's become kind of your, your seminal work. Um. Did, did you have any inkling that it was gonna strike such a chord?

Del Shores: Look, Patrick, we honestly, to tell you the truth, we didn't know what we were doing.

s. He was one of the reasons [: 00:20:00

But I knew that if I did it simply with this amazing group of actors, that it would, that it would work. And I had the play experience, so I knew where the laughs were, so I knew how to edit it. And we just started flying blind. I mean, we literally were just submitting to every film festival. And you know what's, uh, interesting?

This is, we're in the Valley. Um, I remember they invited me, the Palm Springs Film Festival invited me to a, a fundraiser in LA and they wanted me to speak about my experience with, uh, the Palm Springs Film Festival since it had been such a big deal here. And I said, my experience with the Palm Springs Film Festival was, it was the first film festival that turned us down.

ad no idea that they didn't, [: 00:21:00

Patrick Evans: rejected the film. They rejected it. Oh my God. What, what

Del Shores: happened here in the Valley? Is that the reason in this city, this. This area is the reason that Palms, that Palm Springs made sort of lives a hit.

And, uh, Marshall, who was the, the general manager at the Camelot Theaters, he saw it at this fundraiser for the museum we played at one night, only at the Annenberg. And he asked, uh, Regent if he could put it in the theater.

Randy Florence: Wow.

Del Shores: And he just, it all started from there. The word of mouth just started. So all of a sudden we're hearing these rumblings, oh, it's been running three months.

Oh, it's been running six months. And then at one year they ask us all to come down. So that's when we, when we knew what it was. Was then, but we truly had no idea that this was, this was what was happening and what would happen. We had no idea.

Randy Florence: And how did this change your life?

an, it gets me a lot of free [: 00:22:00

That is worth its way. Get to be on major podcasts like

Randy Florence: this, you knows, major podcast, the number one podcast in Coachella Valley, number one in the

Del Shores: Coachella Valley right here. Absolutely no, it, it, it has changed my life in that, um, that this, this, this piece of work that, you know, I wrote as sort of a, an extension of my own coming out experience, uh, gave other people.

Some sort of, uh, voice as well. And, uh, and it just continues. I'm, I'm shocked that it's, that people still, you know, see me on the street and scream out, you know, do you see my pussy now? I mean, I mean,

Randy Florence: and your answer is usually, I always go, I am a major playwright. And that's,

Del Shores: that's the most famous line I've written.

There it is. So was

stage with Leslie Jordan and [: 00:23:00

Del Shores: Yeah, I, you know what, I, I have a wonderful friend, he's still my friend. He was our publicist, ed Baron, and I remember he, he also kind of didn't know what he was, young publicist.

That's, and we could afford him, but he was great. And he got us because of Olivia, because of Delta. I mean, Delta had just come off of designing women. Mm-hmm. She was on hireable kind of at the time, you know, with all the bad publicity. And I was her first, her first job back and Olivia to grace her talent.

That's just crazy to, to do this little tiny film. She had been my friend for many years. Her sister Rona and I were very close. She was in my acting class. And then Bo Bridges had done Daddy's dying. So I was able to gather this cast that I didn't deserve, and then suddenly we're on Good Morning America and we're on the Today Show.

when I saw Delta doing that [: 00:24:00

I just hope it's good. I just hope it's, I hope it, I hope that when it comes out, because this was before it came out, right?

Patrick Evans: That was the publicity tour leading up to the release. Yes.

Del Shores: And then you, you, so you're just hoping, and, and you know, it didn't get good reviews. It was, it was really No, no. You go to Rotten Tomatoes, it's like a, it's like my least.

Best, I mean, of all my movies, it's the least best reviewed really. If that makes sense. That's, I mean,

Patrick Evans: it's shocking me, but because, you know, my lens of that film is through, I lived in Palm Springs, you know, for the last 23 years. So when people talk about Sordid Lives, it's, it's a legend here. Yeah. So, I mean, that's, that's really 96

Del Shores: weeks it ran.

Wow. Yeah. I mean, no, it was, so did you

y Florence: get to the point [: 00:25:00

Del Shores: to you? Well, you know, we all have imposter syndrome. Yeah. I think we all do. And I, I, after I did Sordid Lives, Olivia and I bonded even more and she wanted me to write this movie 'cause she had, uh, talked to Showtime and for her, she and her daughter Chloe.

And so I wrote a movie called The Wild Girls, and I remember this moment of, I was staying at the, um, the con, these condominium, uh, is called the Zou in at the, in the Gold Coast in Australia. And it was the first day of shooting, and I'm jogging to Abba and um, I see Olivia all coming my way. And so we jogged together and she said, how are you feeling, mate?

And, and her telling me that [: 00:26:00

You know? It was, yeah. It was an easy thing. It didn't, and, and you go to Deepak Chopra and the, the, uh, seven laws of spiritual success, the law of least effort. Like you, you're very, y'all are very good at this. This is easy for you. Well, sometimes that's. That's why you're the number one podcast in the Valley.

You, you, because it's easy and it's good.

Patrick Evans: Well, thank you. I, I get that. No, that, that makes a lot of sense because writing was easy for you and that's what you're good at. But you know, it translates into all these other things that you've gone on to do, so, yeah.

Randy Florence: Well, when you get to the point of feeling comfortable with what you're doing, you're not worrying about all the other stuff.

Like, am I doing good or not right? You're just doing it.

n something that you've done [: 00:27:00

Yeah. Right. Yeah. You know, that's, that's a

Del Shores: good feeling. They're still hiring me so that, you know, it, um, I don't know. It's been a good ride. It's still, it's still going, but it's been a good ride and I, I, uh, many, many, many times people have asked me, uh, do you have a issue with being identified with Sordid Lives so much because I have written a lot of other stuff.

A lot of other stuff, yes. A lot of other stuff. And I go, no, I don't. I, I celebrate it. So when, if the That's, that's fine.

Patrick Evans: I mean, I guess some people can get very resentful. Like they, they do many things, but you get known for that one particular thing. Right. And maybe you get a little resentful of it. Uh, you know, I think some big star, like Sean Connery was a little resentful of only being known as James Bond for a while, but then he reconciled and realized that was a, it's a good thing.

ss it's easy to do. But, uh, [: 00:28:00

Del Shores: favorite? It's my favorite of everything. Yeah. But I mean, I love sort of lives because that's because the

Randy Florence: personal story, it was

Del Shores: so personal to me and it was so healing for me because I, you know, when I wrote that play, I wrote it with resistance.

I, um, my, I'd had a, back then my brother and I did not have such a great relationship and there was some issues over me and being gay and, you know, the not understanding and, uh, Matthew Shepard was murdered. And I had a conversation with him about, um, how I felt that there was a possibility because I'd seen this article in Time Magazine where they were interviewing one of the girlfriends, and on the, on the wall was a picture of Jesus.

ught, I wonder if they learn [: 00:29:00

And I'm like, but I don't think that a certain age people can differentiate.

Randy Florence: And I don't think Jesus said that.

Del Shores: No. And Jesus never said anything about homosexuality. Come on. He hung out with all those disciples. You know, there was I 12 guys

Patrick Evans: that

Del Shores: never mentioned a

Patrick Evans: girlfriend, uh, for one of them. No, I mean.

Good point. I mean, I'm no scholar on that. I don't maybe yeah, maybe Peter had a chick on the side. I don't know.

Del Shores: But, but, and the Thaddius was the effeminate one. That's what they said. So anyway, it doesn't matter that that, but that started the journey for me. And I started writing and I started writing, you know, just a monologue about, you know, when I was a kid, I had a crush on Jesus.

And did it

Randy Florence: just start to kind of come out?

Del Shores: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

k Evans: We are gonna take a [: 00:30:00

Uh, so we wanna pause and acknowledge the McCallum Theater and McCallum theater.org. All right, we are back. Thanks again to the McCallum Theater. Uh, we are here with Del Shores, and we're just diving into, we jumped right into sort of lies, but now we've, uh, pivoted to Southern Baptist sissies and, and, uh, we were just getting into kinda your writing process.

Like it, you just, uh, it just started spilling out of you.

Del Shores: Yeah. That it, it it's self-taught in a way, but it's also, you know, I, I, I now have the, uh, privilege of mentoring and, and teaching. I, I teach at Northwestern State University every year as a guest artist, and, uh, I, I always tell my students, just read plays.

ack to. My mom, who was that [: 00:31:00

Did she care what you read? No, she had a whole, we had this one area in our house that was kind of a hallway and she just filled it with books. And so that was my education and my, and she always, every year, you know, she directed the, the plays in high school and she would get this big stack of Samuel French, uh, playbooks and she would say, you wanna read them with me?

And I would just devour them in the summer. And one of my proudest moments with her was taking her to, um. The bookstore, the Samuel French bookstore, and showing her my plays on the show. Oh, wow. How

Randy Florence: did she react?

lly, really proud of, uh, Mo [: 00:32:00

That was her world. She was a theater person and a theater director. So, um, and

Patrick Evans: so you learned by just absorbing these plays?

Del Shores: Yeah. You know, so yeah, I went, I went to Baylor and majored in journalism In Spanish. In Spanish? Yeah.

Patrick Evans: Have you ever written a play in Spanish?

Del Shores: No. I've written some words,

Patrick Evans: a few choice words.

You told us a really funny story before we started taping and you were talking about an experience you had, uh, with a woman here in town, but the line that you used, you said, and if she had a southern accent, I. She could be a character in one of my plays. Exactly. It's, it's so ingrained in you. I mean, that, that, that is, I mean, that's your, the well source for what you do, right?

Yeah. That, that's that southern experience. Yes. And, and I mean, everybody comes from that cast of characters that you grew up around.

s uh, I call it my dirt, you [: 00:33:00

You know, we grew up in the Southern Baptist Church. We, we just, you know, with a secret of being gay. And, um, yeah, you

Randy Florence: brought a lot of your stuff in, into all that early writing, but some of the later writing you did like, uh, queer as folk. How, how did. How did your life come into that?

Del Shores: Well, my gay life came into that because I had, you know, uh, when, when I wrote Southern, when I wrote Southern Baptist Sissies, Ron and Dan, who created Ron, Ron Cowen and, uh, Dan Lipman created Queer As Folk.

Mm-hmm. And I had that back to that Olivia and John picture. Suzy Kurtz was in it. And Suzy was in their Siri sisters. Yes. When she got back to the States after we filmed, she told them, you have to go see Del Shores Southern Baptist, 'cause you need to hire him on your show. And they came on Friday and they hired me on Monday.

hem and they hired me in the [: 00:34:00

Soli, who would, uh, give me shots in my face to make me look, uh, young. And so we stole all of that. I would, I would come to the writer's room just like black and blue and they'd go, Dale, you have to stop. But we, we, the Botox addiction, we, we took that and gave it to Ted because he was feeling insecure. So that was a wonderful, wonderful experience for me to write on queer folk.

I loved it so much. How long did you do that? I did it for three years. Wow. I did the last three seasons. Um, so.

Randy Florence: [: 00:35:00

Del Shores: I've been lucky. I've been, you gotta be pretty proud of that. I, I am, I'm, I'm proud of my body of work and continuing, I'm continuing more in the theater these days.

I just directed a playoff Broadway, um, that, uh, written by a wonderful writer named Jigs Burgess. And he was, uh, the, uh, winner of, I have a foundation now, the Del Shores Foundation, and he was our very first winner, our playwright winner. This was his second play. So we give opportunity to L-G-B-T-Q, uh, playwrights and screenwriters and short film writers.

Patrick Evans: Tell me how the foundation came about.

Del Shores: You know, wonderful, wonderful man named Stuart Bell, who's one of my closest friends. He actually lives here in Palm Springs now. He's the one who got me to, to move down here. He said, come join us. In the land of delusion, we pretend that all of this is not happening.

All of this in the world is not happening. It is like you could just

: tear the curtain aside and [: 00:36:00

Del Shores: and pretend that this is not happening. In our world, this is a bubble. We live in a bubble. It's, it's a pretty good bubble. But I had mentored one of my close friends, uh, Matt Hayes, who had written a wonderful little short film, and I was going, you need to do this and this.

en my producing partner since: 2006

And we, and I was like, oh, no. It's too hard. This is too much work. And then Emerson had a brainstorm of, if we had a contest every year and you could submit your scripts and if you've never been produced, you could never be produced in playwriting or screenwriting or short [00:37:00] films. And then we had one winner, winner.

And, um, then we give opportunity to them. We, and so we've had, uh, one of our short films was may play the Festival Circuit last year, and all of our plays have been produced. I. And I have really big news, actually, this is the first time I've been able to talk about it. 'cause it just happened. Uh, the winner of Emma, who just won a Scalia, is her last name.

She just won, uh, our third year, uh, with a, a play called cockroaches. Uh, is going to premiere at the Revolution Theater. Oh,

Randy Florence: that's great. Oh, terrific. Yeah.

Del Shores: Yeah.

Randy Florence: When does that come out?

Del Shores: Uh, it's, it's gonna be in 2 20 26. Yeah. Alright. So in their season,

Patrick Evans: revolution stage company.com is the website when it comes out called Cockroach.

Del Shores: So watch that. It's, uh, the ink is not even drive, probably shouldn't even be saying it, but I'm gonna say it. Well, by the time,

Patrick Evans: by the time we produce this thing, I mean, it, it takes us months, months to get one of these things out and so our listener will have

Randy Florence: forgotten [: 00:38:00

Patrick Evans: be ready to go.

It'll be almost, oh, it's all, it's all good. I mean, so

Randy Florence: what, directing in front of the camera, behind the camera, what, what do you like to do the most if you had to pick one?

Del Shores: I, you know, I, I love this question and I do have a, an answer for it. If I thank God, if I could pick one thing of the, the hats that I've, I've, I've worn, I would be directing one of my own plays.

It's my, it's my favorite thing to do 'cause it's the last step. In the process for me now as a writer is to direct the piece. I've directed everything I've written since, uh, Sordid Lives.

Randy Florence: Have you directed yourself?

Del Shores: I've not, no. Now that I don't do when like, Emerson Collins directs all of my one man shows.

ow, and Kevin Costner, these [: 00:39:00

Um, I, you know, I've had a great time, uh, standing on stage and talking shit and, uh, well, how did

Randy Florence: talk about how that started?

Del Shores: Well, it started out of kind of being broke. Um, when the, when the source of all great ideas for me.

Randy Florence: I have to go in a minute. I've got a second job and we started at five o'clock.

It's

Del Shores: like, got that dishwashing job over. Oh God, I hope I still have it at Willy's down the street. Oh, if it was Willies, that'd be pretty cool.

Randy Florence: Unfortunately, it's the Denny's on Washington, but, oh God, it's America's diner.

Patrick Evans: There's nothing wrong with that.

ouple of years with my hands [: 00:40:00

Randy Florence: Wow.

Del Shores: And so, my ex-husband, I said, I wasn't gonna talk about him, but he did do something great.

He said, you sit around the dining table and you tell great stories. Why don't you write one. And let's go and you've got a this fan base everywhere. And that's what we did. And uh, I started telling stories on stage and I had the great, the great mentor too, actually, Caroline Ray, who really helped me. And, and she's

Randy Florence: such a funny woman.

e, we did six shows, was me, [: 00:41:00

Oh my God. Playing comics in New York. Wow. So that sort of evolved and I started doing, you know, I did over 500 shows just talking shit. And then I wrote a play. Called six characters in search of a play. And what I did is I took people like Paula that I told you about, yes. Anybody that I felt like was circling the wagon that I haven't told you about yet.

And I chose six and I wrote this play and you know, it was. Emerson directed it. We filmed it. And

Randy Florence: did, did you have any projects that you were working on and they just never got out there? Yes, I had

Del Shores: the, the ones that got away. Yeah. Yeah. Several. You know, I I Any

Randy Florence: that you're gonna try to bring back

Del Shores: of Yeah.

ally wrote a, a, a pilot and [: 00:42:00

And, uh, it's a funny title.

Patrick Evans: It is, and it,

Del Shores: it's truly the movie. And, and Bette Midler was attached to it for a while. Cher wanted to do it for a while. Uh, you know, it came close. Never got made. So I, I wouldn't mind revisiting that.

Patrick Evans: Who would you attach to it now?

Del Shores: If you could? Who's your dream get? Hmm. Maybe Lily Tomlin or, uh, always wanted to work with Sissy.

Spacey.

Randy Florence: Yeah. Lily's gonna be here in six months. Yes, she is.

Del Shores: I've, I've, I've met 'em both. I mean, you know, Sissy's more of a friend than Lily. I've met Lily through Leslie, but, um, Sissy's husband directed my first movie. So, you

I interviewed Sissy Spacek, [: 00:43:00

Is that right? Yes. She, she's she rising the

Randy Florence: lead car waving to everybody. It was

Patrick Evans: weird that they called it the Grand Marshal. It was an odd title for a film festival, but she was delightful. She was, she was really terrific. She's down to earth. Yeah, she was super down to earth. Yeah. I love

Del Shores: her.

Randy Florence: Is there anybody that you haven't worked with yet that you just haven't burning?

Designy? Cc's number

Del Shores: one. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, I got to work with Whoopi finally, so that was, that was kind of amazing. Uh, but yeah, there's, there's a, there's a, a, a good list. I mean, you know, she got a little bit politically weird for me, but I adore Susan Sarandon. Yeah. And her work and her body of work. Um, and her body.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, back in Bull Durham, that was, how sexy was she in Bull Durham? Oh, she's

Randy Florence: pretty sexy. A bombshell. But, um, of course Kevin Kosner was pretty sexy in it too, so,

Del Shores: and, and [: 00:44:00

Randy Florence: the manager of the baseball team.

I still think about him.

Del Shores: Uh, anyway, but, uh, do we need to pause a moment? You need a cigarette. What do you need? A minute. But, you know, honestly, I'm, uh, I always go to females because actresses Jean Smart lately just doing such brilliant work. Oh, I really feel like he, I wanna make a prediction right now.

Jean Smart has won like, what, 14 Emmys. After hacks is over. She's gonna get the role that Winsor and Oscar. I feel that Gene Smart is one of our greatest actresses. Um, she

Randy Florence: is so good in that show. Oh my. She's unbelievable

Patrick Evans: in that show. I feel I love it so much. Super lucky. I was actually in a Jean Smart movie.

Jean Smart did a film right here in Palm Springs with William Shatner and Christopher Lloyd called Senior Moment and Jean Smart. Oh yeah. Jean Smart played the romantic interest of William Shatner.

was in mommy in Me with Jean [: 00:45:00

Uh, yeah, there's, there's, I've been very, very fortunate to work with some amazing people, but, uh, you know, I'm, I'm a fan of. So many more. Do people keep throwing projects at you? Uh, not as much as I wish they would. No. They, they throw projects at me, but they never have the money to make up. There's, there's no cash behind.

Great. You should

Patrick Evans: do this. Yeah. Go find, go find the funds. They're like

Del Shores: the, the projects that I get offered or like, and can you raise the money? Right. And I'm like, and, and

Randy Florence: is that really, I mean, is that the single hardest job of putting together any of these projects? It is, is

Del Shores: finding the cash. It is a very difficult thing to do.

And, uh, I will not do it for anybody but my own work. Right. That I'm that selfish.

Patrick Evans: Now, how much writing do you still get to do?

't. I, I used to write daily [: 00:46:00

I have a new play that opens in Birmingham, uh, in, uh, February called the Recipe Box. And that was one of those things where I'm just, I'm down teaching in, uh, in, in Nish, Louisiana, and I observed something and it resonated with me and a play came out of it. So that's how I write these days.

Randy Florence: What, what's your process?

Do you have a specific place that you sit a I do, yeah.

Del Shores: I sit, uh, mainly on the sofa with a legal pad and, uh, a pencil. And you've always rewrite it? Yeah. Wow. Wow. I write long hand. I feel like that that is something I don't have to think about. I have to worry about, you know, the keys on the, I do the rewriting on the computer.

Randy Florence: Okay.

ores: But I do the, I have a [: 00:47:00

Randy Florence: Anything that you finished the first time and thought it's perfect? No. No.

Del Shores: Scenes yes. Like the brother boy scene and Sordid lives.

I wrote that in about 48 hours. I called Leslie and I read it from start to finish. He ad-libbed a couple of things as I was reading it and I added that and it pretty much stayed the same.

Randy Florence: Ever had any major disagreements with an actor on the way they were doing something and the way you wanted it done?

Del Shores: Yes. Yeah. Something you can

Randy Florence: share?

nd. I mean, you know, when I [: 00:48:00

Um, but there was an actor, and I love and adored him. He was his name, uh, was Glenn Shaddock. You all remember him using Beetlejuice? Uh, he was sort of the, uh, interior designer, the big queen. Oh, the big guy. Yeah. Yeah. And Leslie actually introduced me to me. Him and he, Leslie, got a movie and left sort of, uh, I mean sissies for a while.

And Glenn stepped in and I, as a director, I believe in line readings. If you're not getting the line, the way I hear it, I'm gonna tell you how to say it. And Glenn had a very different theory about that. He, and so I started to tell, give him a line reading, and he said, uh, no Uhuh, no. Whoa. I do not take line readings.

And I said, wow. Well, if you work for me, you will, and

Randy Florence: you do

you know, you can have your [: 00:49:00

But if a director tells you to do something else, you are working for them. And you need to figure out in your craft, in your process how to adapt to their, their style as well. And, um. I'm not, uh, I'm not without opinions. There's a shock. Comes as a great shock to all of us.

Randy Florence: It kinda seems like if you've written it and you're directing it, maybe your opinion counts.

I, I

Patrick Evans: think I know what I want. Yeah. Right. Yeah. And your tracker of success would lead one to believe, eh, let's go with his idea. Yeah, I think we're gonna go with that.

Del Shores: But I love a, I love a good actor. I love, you know, Bo Bridges was, I've worked with Bo three times actually, uh, people know about too, but I worked on a, a, a television show.

I called [: 00:50:00

I just want you to get there. And so Bo has this meeting with me and his co-star. He has this legal pad with all these things written down. We were doing Sordid lives. And so it's me and Delta Burke and Beau Bridges, and. He's going in GW, you know, met Lolita in eighth grade. Uh, she was in eighth grade and he was a sophomore in high school, and then blah, blah, you know, and he's just going on and on all this detail, and Delta's just like a, uh, oh, oh, well I didn't think about that.

And, [: 00:51:00

Randy Florence: to feel pretty good as a director to understand how lined up they are. Oh, with your

Del Shores: vision and how thorough he was. Yeah.

And well, he gave it more, more than you, I

Patrick Evans: think that's right. Ever put

Del Shores: into that? Yeah. I didn't, you know, he, he knew when the first time he jacked off, I mean, he was like so detailed. And then Delta, he said, Delta, does that conflict with anything that you've done with your work? And she said, oh, Bo honey, I just saved the lines and hope for the best.

That's fantastic. So good boy. Her best was great. Oh man. I

Randy Florence: had a big major crush on her for,

Del Shores: yeah.

Randy Florence: Yeah, just thought I, you also had a

uy messages from you. Randy. [: 00:52:00

Del Shores: Delta's still my buddy. We still talk. We, I, I, I probably should call her on the way out of here.

She, she's, she's living in Florida now. She's, she's a really sweet, beautiful, does she still work? Uh, she, shes not to, I mean her, her husband, Gerald McCraney Mack, we call him. He, he works. A lot.

Patrick Evans: He's always been one of my favorite. I feel like what you see on the screen is kind of who he is. He's very much that may just, you know, he's one of those like you, you see people, you think, man, I'd like to grab a beer with that guy.

Del Shores: Yeah.

Patrick Evans: He strikes me as that kind of guy.

Del Shores: He's one of my favorite Republicans, both of them. Yeah. Delta's a Republican. I don't think she keeps up that much, you know? Yeah. She's not that

Randy Florence: dialed into where they are right now. Probably not. Yeah.

Del Shores: Uh, I adore her. So

Randy Florence: what's coming up next?

Del Shores: Uh, well, you're

Randy Florence: moving to Palm Springs.

n a few, a few weeks. That's [: 00:53:00

Patrick Evans: do your, where, where is your grandson? Where, where are your kids? My, my

Del Shores: daughter Caroline lives in San Francisco. My daughter Rebecca lives in LA and so Rebecca and I are getting in the car and driving up there and staying for a week for the birth of, uh, the child.

And then, um, I have, uh, the recipe box, my new play opening in, uh, February in Birmingham. It's going to probably have a Tri-City premier and we're working, we're working out the details of the other two cities. And, uh, I have a, I have a, I do have a project I'm working on that I can't talk about quite yet, but it's gonna be very exciting for those.

Randy Florence: Does it involve. Podcast hosts.

Del Shores: Yeah, it does. Like, oh, thank God. It's, it's a, a straight guy that's a podcast host and the other one who had a crush on Delta Burke, but he also had a baseball, but also crush on Tim Robbins. And there's a lot you can do with that character. And somehow they fall in love with the, the control guy.

Uh, it's a whole [: 00:54:00

Patrick Evans: have to talk about the casting. I have to talk about the casting. Uh, Randy asked all these questions because he is, he continues to improve his craft as a thespian. He's taking acting. Do you know, uh, Terry Ray? Yeah, of course. Yes. So he is been taking acting with Terry, and he and Randy and I are gonna do an improv class.

Oh, I love that. Yeah. That, that class is gonna be in trouble. I love that. I suspect we'll be thrown out by week

Del Shores: three. Well, when y'all, I'm giving us three weeks. When y'all get to the showcase level, please invite me and I'll come and, um, judge you. Oh, dear God,

Randy Florence: I feel judged already. I feel pretty judged. No, no, the way he said that.

The way he said, like, I mean, celebrate your work. Yes, yes.

John McMullen: How can people support the foundation?

're a family. The Del Shores [: 00:55:00

Uh, every year we have these house parties and, uh, Melissa Morgan hosted it with John Monaghan last year, and we just have beautiful people here who support our work. So

Randy Florence: you, you've got an amazing body of work. Uh, so first of all, congratulations. All of that thought guys say body. I did. I was really nervous.

I was worried where that was going. I was, I still thinking Delta, but when I'm talking about the match

Del Shores: manager, I'll get back to you. But thank you Randy. I appreciate it. No, seriously, thank you very much. I. I many times make fun of instead of accept a compliment. And, and I I thank you for that. Well, it's

Randy Florence: funny you say that.

and had it had to go through [: 00:56:00

Did any of that pertain to you as you were growing up, that you didn't feel comfortable with the success?

Del Shores: Yeah, I think, um, he there, back to the imposter syndrome. 'cause I started, um, where I met Rona Newton John actually Olivia's sister was in Joan Darling's acting class. And there were such ridiculously talented people in that class.

And, uh, there were, there were some people that were already famous. Anna Archer was in that class. George Gaines was in that class. I remember one, uh, session Steven Spielberg came into the class. Oh man. To just, I've heard of him. Yeah. He, he would, he just wanted to know how to direct actors better. So he just sat there and watched.

re gonna be so huge. And so. [: 00:57:00

I mean, it's, it's, it's all, uh, it's all a part of the journey and, um, I, I know I'm answering this in a weird way, but the way I was able to accept, and that's why I paused when, when you and I, I wanted to accept that compliment instead of like, make a joke about it. Yeah. Is I went to, um, an acting class probably a couple of years, maybe more.

Yeah. And, um, I. They asked [: 00:58:00

And she said, I wasn't a part of the class. And she said, Del, come up and tell 'em I know that something happened. And I said, oh, 'cause yeah, I didn't, I, so I did, and then I remember everybody started applauding and I did this. And she said, oh, that's not allowed here. Because you're taking, you put a wall up, you're taking away the gift that they're giving you.

Yeah. You're going, I don't want your gift.

Randy Florence: Wow.

Del Shores: So to accept the compliment and to go. Okay. Thank you. Do you still

Randy Florence: struggle with that?

Del Shores: I do. I think we all do because we,

Randy Florence: yeah. It's a hard thing.

Del Shores: Well, you were, you grew up in the church. We were taught humility. Yes. You know, humble, be humble. Don't be that person with a lot of pride.

But, um, so yeah, it's, it's part of. Learning. Yeah, always learning and growing.

teman say recently, uh, as a [: 00:59:00

Del Shores: I, I tell my actors very much some of that same, I say, be prepared. If you think you're prepared, be over prepared. Because when all of these elements come in, when you have the boom, when you have the camera coming, it's not just me and you talking anymore. And you think about these, we were talking about Jean Smart, all the brilliant work that she does.

at someone is an asshole, I. [: 01:00:00

Patrick Evans: Okay. Dish the dirt. Before we go, who is this? Give us some names of your people you won't work with anymore.

Del Shores: Oh, I love this stuff. I would never judge Reinhold. Uh, Thomas Hayden church was not exactly really nice. He

Randy Florence: seems like he could be a little Well, why does that difficult, you know,

Del Shores: you think about people like, you think about judge, you think about, I mean, Tommy, I, I, I loved Tommy.

I loved it. We worked on Ned and Stacey together, but he wasn't kind to Deborah messing. He was, he was awful to her, really? And I, I, I look at those people who are rude, who are nasty to those people that they perceived. I don't think of people as underlings. Yeah. I don't think of the assistant costumer who's giving you a robe or whatever that you have to, like, judge had thought that he could yell at people.

sel, the dp, on, on, on, um, [: 01:01:00

Um, I, he said, I hope we can work together again. And I said, judge, I would rather work the, the drive-through window at El Polio Loco, asking people if they want corner flower tortillas than to work with you again, because you are a horrible human being. To other people. And then later on he sent me an apology, you know?

Wow. He said that he had gotten some help and he had struggled with some mental stuff and, and he sent me an apology. But, um, yeah, there's, there are people who treated it. It, for me, it's like, it's like when you go out to dinner with someone and someone's rude with the waiter. Yeah, yeah. You know, that's a dick.

try to treat everybody else [: 01:02:00

Del Shores: So, but it's a good, it's a good theory. Jason. Jason Bateman was right. Yeah.

Patrick Evans: Yeah. I like that. Del, thank you for, well, first of all.

I love brutal honesty and it makes for a great podcast. Yeah. You tell great stories and this has been a delight. It really has. When, when this next project that I know that you couldn't talk about, when that comes to fruition, will you come back?

Del Shores: I'll, I'll come and announce it. Alright. Thank you so much.

Those people here are gonna be very excited about it. Can't wait. Alright.

Patrick Evans: That's more excited that you're gonna be a, a resident here. Yes, definitely. Palm Springs feels like we have a little bit of ownership Yes. Of you. That's right. You know, because of, don't do anything

Randy Florence: without asking first.

Del Shores: Yeah. By the way, I'm filming an episode of House Hunter this weekend.

Seriously? Yeah. With my, my, my pursuit of finding the right place. Oh, my wife

Randy Florence: is gonna love that.

Del Shores: Yeah. Yeah. Phenomenal. So, alright. You're a

Randy Florence: terrific guest. Thank you so much. Alright. Thanks for having me, Randy. You're terrific. This was a great, uh, great show. We got to talk about some important things we need to bring in

Patrick Evans: guests that are producing work that may be able to hire you.

ndy Florence: You know, Hey, [: 01:03:00

Patrick Evans: There we go. Absolutely. And so is John McMullen our producer, and so are you all of our listeners. Please subscribe so you never miss an episode. Our thanks to Skip Paige. Our thanks to the McCallum Theatre, our presenting sponsor.

Once again, thanks to Del Shores, a phenomenal guest and thank you for listening to Big Conversations, Little Bar will be back next week with another episode.